The Job Security Cybersecurity Podcast
The Job Security Cybersecurity Podcast, brought to you by Expel Security, explores the unique perspectives and stories of the people who make the cybersecurity industry what it is—whether they realize it or not. Hosts Dave Johnson and Tyler Zito recognize that we're living in an enlightenment period of cybersecurity, where the industry has stabilized with established education systems, compliance frameworks, and documented methodologies. But it took a lot to get here.
This podcast looks inward at our community and culture, sharing the stories of how we built this industry through DIY traditions, mythologies, and countless people figuring it out as they went. We explore not just the technical aspects of security, but the human elements—from current students and interns to seasoned professionals, and even those outside cybersecurity who offer valuable perspectives on risk, strategy, and innovation.
Expect conversations about where we've been, where we are now, and where we're headed next. We'll talk to adjunct professors, threat hunters, entertainers at hacker conventions, and professionals from adjacent industries who can teach us something new. This isn't another podcast about threats and threat actors—it's about the people doing the work and the lessons we can learn by looking in slightly different directions.
Join us for a mix of education, entertainment, and optimism as we celebrate how far cybersecurity has come while inspiring curiosity and innovation for the future. Whether you're taking a lunch break or winding down after incident response, we're here to help you relax with good stories and interesting discoveries.
The Job Security Cybersecurity Podcast
Episode 1: The cyber kids are alright
Host Dave Johnson sits down with Matthew Gracie and Brandon Levene, two longtime security practitioners who have transitioned into teaching the next generation of cybersecurity professionals. This conversation explores their educational journeys, teaching philosophies, and what makes today's cybersecurity students different from previous generations.
Key topics & timestamps
Educational backgrounds (2:45 - 6:17)
- Brandon: Psychology degree, early Palm Pilot hacking, LAN party SubSeven pranks
- Matt: English degree, desktop support, voluntold into security by CIO in 2005
- Both learned security before formal education programs existed
Path to teaching (8:01 - 14:24)
- Matt negotiated teaching cybersecurity in exchange for hosting BSides Buffalo
- Brandon pitched cybercrime course at Johns Hopkins after conference conversation
Teaching challenges (10:00 - 21:39)
- Diverse graduate student backgrounds: accounting majors to IT veterans
- Balancing content for newcomers vs. experienced students
- Brandon's classes: majority female in 2 of 4 semesters, policy-focused
- Matt's program: technically-oriented under computer science department
The "Wild West" of cyber education (21:40 - 25:01)
- No standardized curricula across institutions
- Programs emerging from different departments (criminal justice, accounting, CS)
- Difficult to evaluate cybersecurity degrees from unknown schools
Industry challenges (25:02 - 35:45)
- Warning against bootcamp promises without technical fundamentals
- Communication skills as crucial as technical abilities
- Reality check: High stress, long hours, constant learning required
Industry recommendations (36:00 - 39:12)
- Better support systems for junior professionals
- Focus on communication skills alongside technical training
- Sustainable career progression from junior to senior roles
Key quotes
"We're kind of in that same stage that computer science was back in the 60s and 70s, when it was still mostly math professors who just happened to be teaching computer science stuff." - Matt Gracie
"What if we train them and they don't stay, and the counter is, what if we don't train them and they do? I would much rather train them and have competence and they don't stay but incentivize them to actually grow and stay." - Brandon Levene
"Security works best as a dual class... You come up as desktop support or help desk or network engineering, and then transfer into a more security focused role." - Matt Gracie
Helpful links
Production Credits
- Co-hosts: Dave Johnson
- Producer: Ben Baker
- Sponsor: Expel MDR
Connect
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The Job Security Podcast explores the unique perspectives and stories of the people who make the cybersecurity industry what it is, whether they realize it or not.